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Stiglr
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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  Posted:
Jul 03, 2006 - 10:29 AM |
 
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I've been following the various FW190 threads on heating, Notleistung, compasses and all manner of minutae, even up to and including bottom edges of landing gear doors. 
I want to say to everyone, starting with Fabry and the TT team... and Blowhard, who turned out some excellent skins, and to people like illo and lumino...
GREAT WORK at raising the right questions, pointing towards the answers, having the right spirit with regards to criticisms, and doing your level best to end up with the best virtual FW190 yet seen.
The plane has caused a bit of a stir over at Olegland; they wanted it to be so bad so badly, and now they can see how it exposes the deficiencies of their own sim's version... but surprisingly, they do seem to just be acknowledging that we probably have it right instead of attempting to instigate some kind of witch hunt.
Bravo to everyone on this herculean effort!
Now, if we can only expect the various 109s to be so good....  |
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Vespa
Joined: May 11, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 03, 2006 - 01:48 PM |
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| Stiglr wrote: | | Now, if we can only expect the various 109s to be so good.... |
They will be....  |
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fabry
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 03, 2006 - 07:15 PM |
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109 release will cause the same effect of 190 release 15 days of good server number than back to usual number of 4/6 players online, average TW is a an almost dead horse no matter how good we make the models, planes are nothing without good scenic effects, good terrain, good scenarios and good physic engine only M9S can fix the last one, but the other tree aspect are very bad at the moment ant this is only for our as player/developers community fault ! 
It's easy to make good planes models with good documentation, but terrain, effects and scenario really need someone to care about those are things that really give “immersion” to a simulation much more than airplanes models.
Everybody in TWland know Zorr and Peril for ACM,everybody know Lo Ammo,Ebola and BLOWHARD for 2D, Everybody know for Mossie and Fabry for 3D ,but can someone tell me a neme of an effect or scenarios specialist ? |
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CrazyMoFo
Joined: Aug 30, 2005
Posts: 147
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2006 - 01:27 AM |
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I think first off you need server stability. Great planes and trees mean little if the server is constantly down. And a word on terrain detail: my preference is keep it light. Scenery is the last thing on the list and it never really looks real.
For me:
1. Stable server.
2. Physics ( flight, bullets, etc )
3. Plane detail
Regards
CMF |
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eilif
Joined: Oct 28, 2003
Posts: 1125
Location: Corvallis OR
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2006 - 04:17 AM |
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terrain graphics have always been the least important thing for me, i always liked it simple since complex terrains kill frame rates. For me its flight model fidelity, game play( historicaly accurate as possible, yet filtering out the boaring aspects and focusing on the good zap bam stuff) and the airplanes 3d model graphic accuracy. Then lighting engine and lastly terrain detail. Good lighiting would make our terrains look alot better than it does now. Heck good lighting could make an old 1990s compete with a modern game that has average lighitng. |
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tuffnut
Joined: Oct 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2006 - 12:42 PM |
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Sever reliability would go a long way in keeping the numbers up IMO. Just being able to get on would be great. Used to fly TT quite often but haven't been able to get on for some time. And have the same problen with RS. Just can't get logged on period.  |
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Stiglr
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2006 - 01:12 PM |
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Fabry,
Don't get so discouraged. I know it is frustrating, but they didn't lie to us: this is BETA, and stuff is going to be in, and stay in, an unfinished state longer than we want it to.
You guys are doing your part by adding great content and setting new marks for quality with each release!
Believe me, the other parts will fall into line...
That being said, it sure would be nice if a TERRAIN GURU would surface... and a PARTICLE WIZ who could show us some great ways to develop these visual effects. |
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Clipper
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 05, 2006 - 09:29 AM |
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| fabry wrote: | | but can someone tell me a neme of an effect or scenarios specialist ? |
I wrote a number of scenarios for TR- D4, E4, F4, G1 and H1. I got fairly good at using the SD program. I learned about 'wraps' and other good stuff. I think SD has gotten a bad rap, yeah it has a few bugs but it was written quickly over a few months by Yak and tested by a very small number of people.
Before TR even started building scenarios they worked out a tree of historical battles and 'what if?' branches. For instance, what if the Italians had taken Malta, what happens next? And so the battle tree grows.
TR asked volunteers to do the historical research and then build the individual battles they had penciled in. Then the whole project was abandoned with word that the next version would make them obsolete.
I strongly suggest someone at TT make up such a tree (it needn't be so long or complex). My free has been pretty limited these days so I could only volunteer to design a battle or two. The people who excel at scenarios are novelists at heart - people who like to tell a narrative.
This is the TR tree-
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Vespa
Joined: May 11, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 05, 2006 - 12:00 PM |
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We can do that, since 065 seems to be far away to be here
I thought it wasn't worth it to work but in the delay of new TW system we have to rethink this side of TT. |
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ebola-
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 05, 2006 - 12:05 PM |
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yep, it's annoing producing for the recicle bin (with the knowledge you can't use your work in the next update) |
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Stiglr
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 05, 2006 - 12:46 PM |
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So, exactly what indications do we have that 0.65 isn't anywhere close? Last update in sick's blog says Lua is all but "welded in" to the code... isn't that one of the gating factors? |
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Bomber
Joined: May 28, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 05, 2006 - 12:51 PM |
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Anything on the 'top secret' private forums ?
Anyway... a good scenario tree will still be needed within lua 0.65, to ensure that the correct targets and situations are made available at the correct time and under the right cirmcumstances....
So you're not wasting your time at all, you're actually thinking ahead and being ready to go.
Simon |
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ebola-
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 05, 2006 - 12:59 PM |
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neg Bomber, I don't know more than you do. All informations I have are from Sick's blog. But I'm not a programmer (if I see more than 3 numbers at the same place I'm searching for a callculator... ) but my understanding so far is that the scenarios in the next update will be lua-coded.
but maybe I'm wrong.... |
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Vespa
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| Posted:
Jul 05, 2006 - 01:05 PM |
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U'r right ebola, we have no great info by TW Team, just sick blog.
In 0.65 we'll not have scenarios...just a permanent arena with campaigns LUA coded. |
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fabry
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 05, 2006 - 01:08 PM |
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As Bomber say making a war flow schematics (if we dont want to call it scenario tree ), can be always useful ,it's the best way to study how this game will try to flow historic situation and belivable "what if" situation generated by players action. |
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Mossie
Joined: Dec 18, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 05, 2006 - 02:02 PM |
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While the scenario code may be lost in 065, the story line and thoughts around what should or could happen will still be relevant. So a good set of stories first then 064 scenarions, then 065 campaigns. So not everything will be wasted. |
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Bomber
Joined: May 28, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 05, 2006 - 03:02 PM |
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Would the Target Tobruk team be willing to brainstorm a 'war schematic' on this forum ?
I ask because I think it's something of importance to all mods, not the schematic specific to TT, but the mechanics, the techneques involved, the tools and general desire to be open to all suggestions...
I think it would be good for the community as a whole...
May I also suggest, as with all brainstorming that their be no wrong idea's...... no "that never happened" because to have a truely 2 sided schematic you must go into the 'what ifs'... Malta must be able to fall, supplies must reach Rommel and the fight must be taken to Gibralta...
regards
Simon |
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Stiglr
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 05, 2006 - 04:27 PM |
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actually, i'd start scripting out treeS (plural). It's going to be awfully difficult to map out a tree for the entire map, and set all those contingencies.
Here are some natural campaigns which can be separated out, and use chunks of the map that are manageable...
1) Malta
2) N. Africa (with and without Luftwaffe involvement?) Actually, you could even break this segment up into 2 - 4 campaigns by itself!!!
3) Torch/Tunisia
4) Invasion of Sicily |
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Bomber
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| Posted:
Jul 05, 2006 - 05:40 PM |
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This is the one I'd like to see....
The Swordfish Attack on the French Fleet fails to destroy them at anchor, the French Admiral incensed by this attack response by setting sail and in a daring dash across the med breaks the blockade and allows the Italian Fleet to leave habour. This joint fleet then sails West towards Gibralta with the Royal Navy fighting a constant stand-off battle... The Sharnhorst, Gneisenau and Prinz Eugen along with their destroyer escort leave Brest under cover of darkness in operation 'Cerberus', a daring Channel dash to home ports. The Royal Navy's channel fleet awaits them.... Hearing the news of the French-Italian fleet Vice-Admiral and Fleet Commander Otto Ciliax sails South, destination Gibralta and the Royal Navy is wrong footed. A flash message is sent from Admiralty House to the Altantic fleet and South Atlantic fleets........ Make haste Gibralta......
Unable to hold the French-Italian fleet the Royal Navy is pushed through the straits of Gibralta under murderous fire and into the Altantic effectively cutting off Malta and the 8th Army and leaving the Axis in possession of the North African oil fields.
The Battleships Prince of Wales (on shake down duty) King George V with the aircraft carriers Illustrious and Ark Royal make a mad dash from their positions supporting the Altlantic convoys and meet up with the South Atlantic and the remnents of the Mediteranian fleet, a conferance is held and battle orders are issued..Vice-Admiral Otto Ciliax take command of the Axis fleet and sails out into the Atlantic to press home the initiative...
On the morning of February 14 1942 140 years after Nelson defeated the French and Spanish fleets at Traffalga the 2 giants fleets meet at that very same spot in what will be the biggest naval battle since WWI
I know this sounds Naval but it's just the backdrop on which an areial campaign takes place...
Regards
Simon |
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Stiglr
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| Posted:
Jul 05, 2006 - 07:15 PM |
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Erm, you got that PoWales ready, mate? I can use her to litter the bottom of the ocean off Malaya... |
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kidcan
Joined: Jun 02, 2006
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| Posted:
Jul 07, 2006 - 04:04 AM |
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holy bajebus! we need Fairey Fulmars and Blackburn Skuas too.....Martlets.....bring it on stand fast and deliver you bastiges ARRRGGGHH!!!!
I dunno anything about ground effects or modelling them but actually they would ad to the game...like a plane splashing into the ocean, the spray and parts floating, or a crash in teh dessert and sand all over teh place or the sacr left in a bunch of bushes a plane went through
I think if we can get the water to be water, then we have a chance....
so far I love this game and I find it really sad that there are usally only 4-10 people on I have tried to get people from my WB's squad to fly with me...I will keep trying....ya never know..one day....it all ahs to do with global location to you folks in europe are having brunch and I am off to bed....night:)
oh yes and the server the bloody server I am still get time synch errors and when i want to play sometimes it is down.....I understand waht is going on here, we have to have eye candy to get people...and to an extent we have with teh immersive flight models and cockpits.......but the terrain and the"hard water take away from it.....imagive for example if we could create weatehr patterns? rain and horrible sea storms....
also I think an open end based on historical fact is cool
leave it open....Allies have to sink ships, they fail...why not let the fleet continue....this makes the game much more worth gettinginto and playing no resets no knowing where things will end....
we all kno what really happened but letting it be opened ended makes it more immeresed, becuase it's truly on our shoulders if we want to succede or lose...I know I would try even harder if I knew my Swordfish I just lifted off from a carrier; is the difference between losing or winning the game....and havign it just go through to 1945 or an agreed period of time.... |
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fabry
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 07, 2006 - 04:34 AM |
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Open end and possibility to change game history for players is a MUST,otherwiswe there will be no reason at all to play an online game. |
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Stiglr
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 07, 2006 - 12:53 PM |
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Of course, Fabry...
The only thing I ask for is reasonable what-if room.
It's one thing to hypothesize if a certain campaign had gone a different way, and to extrapolate that into alternate scenarios. Or, tinker with introduction dates to see if a plane might have changed the whole flavor of a certain time period.
What I like to guard against is just the "gifting" of ueberplanes to people who just want to have the ultimate plane all the time (or to avoid ever having to fly planes that the real pilots had to soldier along with) and have a huge advantage to game the game with.
There's a subtle difference there. I think we all should have to deal with some adversity, and occasionally find a way to make do with less-than-stellar planes, and to have to sometimes get our fingers dirty doing less than glamourous missions (strafing and airfield attack without cannon comes to mind!) ; it gives you an appreciation for the real history and makes you a better, more cunning pilot as well.  |
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Bomber
Joined: May 28, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 07, 2006 - 01:52 PM |
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Arh but Stiglr if the Allies hadn't made a successfull invassion of Normandy, if The Mediteranian and North Africa had fallen to the Axis.. then the war would have stretched out longer even just by 6 months would have changed so much...At which point the introduction of more and more 262 squadron and other uber planes would be realistic for both side...
You can't have an open ended campaign but limit it to only technology that existed upto '45.....
There has to be a reward for gaining victory on time with history... and there must be a reward for holding out till more advanced equipment became front line.
Simon |
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MacGyver
Joined: Feb 02, 2006
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2006 - 06:10 AM |
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Valid point Bomber. I wholeheartedly agree. |
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